Comments on: Dogen and the game of “go” http://www.numenware.com/article/407 Religion. Brain. Dogen. Language. Japan. Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:35:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Gregory Wonderwheel http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-985 Gregory Wonderwheel Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:59:23 +0000 http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-985 Very interesting! Do you have an online <span class="caps">URL</span> for Dogen’s Japanese? I’ve see similarly strange translations of the Gateless Checkpoint (Ch. P-y. Wumenguan, J. Mumonkan) where insertions and completely wrong words are used in the author’s attempt to capture the “meaning.” While I completely appreciate your translation, I can’t agree with your conclusion that “Dogen had nothing special to tell us about go or go players.” I marvel that you can say such a thing after marvelously translating Dogen’s very special comments about go and go players! Dogen points out that the interaction of the Zen teachers is just like an interaction in go. Dogen shows the interaction in go reveals the functioning of suchness in in the verbal interactions (mondo) of Zen teachers. Dogen has made it clear that Wanshi presented his students with a koan having a two-sided head: “Show your answer my move?â€? and “Show how you avoid getting taken for a ride?â€? In other words, play go! Very interesting! Do you have an online URL for Dogen’s Japanese?

I’ve see similarly strange translations of the Gateless Checkpoint (Ch. P-y. Wumenguan, J. Mumonkan) where insertions and completely wrong words are used in the author’s attempt to capture the “meaning.”

While I completely appreciate your translation, I can’t agree with your conclusion that “Dogen had nothing special to tell us about go or go players.” I marvel that you can say such a thing after marvelously translating Dogen’s very special comments about go and go players! Dogen points out that the interaction of the Zen teachers is just like an interaction in go. Dogen shows the interaction in go reveals the functioning of suchness in in the verbal interactions (mondo) of Zen teachers.

Dogen has made it clear that Wanshi presented his students with a koan having a two-sided head: “Show your answer my move?â€? and “Show how you avoid getting taken for a ride?â€? In other words, play go!

]]> By: Mikefrog http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-185 Mikefrog Mon, 30 May 2005 10:05:46 +0000 http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-185 Thanks. Maybe in comparing Zen teacher - disciple with playing Go, Wanshi was thinking of what I’d express as “you can’t just follow me around” which is what teachers of both disciplines often say. Thanks. Maybe in comparing Zen teacher - disciple with playing Go, Wanshi was thinking of what I’d express as “you can’t just follow me around” which is what teachers of both disciplines often say.

]]> By: Bob Myers http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-182 Bob Myers Sun, 29 May 2005 23:58:32 +0000 http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-182 “Take for a ride” is a translation of the Japanese çžžã?˜åŽ»ã‚‰ã‚“ (damaji-saran). Tanahashi has “swallow up”, not clear where he gets this. Cleary has “fool completely”. An expert in classical Chinese and Japanese glosses whom I consulted this as “perplex” you, and adds “The meaning of saru is rather like out- in outfox.” I’m not completely comfortable with “take for a ride”, not because I think it’s wrong, but because it’s awkward and a little bit too colloquial. An equally colloquial alternative would be “get away with murder”. “Take for a ride” is a translation of the Japanese çžžã?˜åŽ»ã‚‰ã‚“ (damaji-saran). Tanahashi has “swallow up”, not clear where he gets this. Cleary has “fool completely”. An expert in classical Chinese and Japanese glosses whom I consulted this as “perplex” you, and adds “The meaning of saru is rather like out- in outfox.”

I’m not completely comfortable with “take for a ride”, not because I think it’s wrong, but because it’s awkward and a little bit too colloquial. An equally colloquial alternative would be “get away with murder”.

]]> By: Mikefrog http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-180 Mikefrog Sun, 29 May 2005 10:22:18 +0000 http://www.numenware.com/article/407#comment-180 Whoever thinks Dogen (or Wanshi) was talking about Go has missed it by a million miles. But can you clarify for me, is this “taken for a ride” your translation, and what is the flavour of it? (Or how do others render it?) (I play Go, but know no Japanese other than Go terms). Whoever thinks Dogen (or Wanshi) was talking about Go has missed it by a million miles.

But can you clarify for me, is this “taken for a ride” your translation, and what is the flavour of it? (Or how do others render it?) (I play Go, but know no Japanese other than Go terms).

]]>