Incan quipus were spreadsheet roll-ups with department codes?
Dr. Gary Urton is one of the foremost scholars of quipu, the Incan system of knotted cords for record-keeping.
(The spelling “quipu” is Spanish. The Quechuan alternative is “khipu” where the “h” indicates an aspirated consonant.)
Dr. Urton is the author of Signs of the Inka Khipu: Binary Coding in the Andean Knotted-String Records, where he unfurled the theory that khipus represent a seven-bit coding system, one that I found utterly unconvincing. In my review on Amazon, I picked apart his theory and compared his approach to discussing an Egyptian tombstone covered with hieroglyphics and spending all your time on categorizing them by shape and size without being able to understand a single one. Dr. Urton responded by saying “…my analogy to binary coding is just that, an analogy that is used to give the reader a general understanding of the type of system that is proposed…the theory of binary coding is put forward in this book in an attempt to find some new way(s) of working with these devices to move us to a new level of analysis and, hopefully, understanding.”
But I’m still not convinced. The theory is an “analogy”? It’s not supposed to be an explanation, but just an “attempt to move to a new level”?
Now the New York Times has reported important new research by Dr. Urton (see also the paper in Nature (subscribers only) and the report in Scientific American):
A new and possibly significant advance in deciphering the quipu system may now have been gained by two Harvard researchers, Gary Urton and Carrie J. Brezine. They believe they may have decoded the first word—a place name—to be found in a quipu, and have also identified what some of the many numbers in the quipu records may be referring to.
Any and all progress in deciphering khipus is welcome. However, looking at these newest findings from Dr. Urton (who has apparently discarded his 7-bit ASCII theory), I am once again underwhelmed.
It’s always been obvious that most khipus record numbers. To simplify a bit, the number 123 would be encoded in a khipu by tying one knot at the top of the cord, leaving a bit of space, tying two knots, leaving more space, then tying three knots, with a special twist indicating this is the last digit. That’s right—the Incas used base-10 arithmetic. The two major questions were: what was being recorded, and did some khipus encode non-numeric information—perhaps even a form of “writing”?
On the first topic, in his latest paper Dr. Urton merely “suspects” and thinks it “likely” that the numerical records are of labor quotas. (The Incan empire was sustained by a system of drafted labor.)
On the second, the “word” found and supposedly “decoded” was simply a 1-1-1 knot which is conjectured to be the name of the town where the khipu was found and presumably created. It’s like finding the number “367” on an Excel spreadsheet and imagining that it must be the code for the department of the guy that created it, and then saying that it’s a “word”.
The NYT thus goes completely overboard when it says that this “discovery” could “resolve a longstanding controversy by establishing that quipus included a writing system. That in turn would help explain the ‘Inca paradox,’ that among states of large size and administrative complexity the Inca empire stands out as the only one that apparently did not invent writing. The paradox would be resolved if indeed the quipu encode a writing system as well as numbers.”
This is absurd. A three-digit city code is not a “writing system”. Dr. Urton says “the use of conventional signs is my definition of writing.” Wrong. Using signs for numbers is not writing.
Another aspect of the new research is the finding that khipus formed a hierarchy, sort of a medieval Andean roll-up. The same numbers were found on two different khipus, and it’s believed that on the first it’s the Excel SUM function adding up all the individual numbers of hours of labor or heads of llama or number of virgins or whatever it was, which was then brought over to the second khipu as a line item to be added up into some kind of regional grand total. That’s interesting, but hardly surprising.
Sadly, we will probably never find the equivalent of the “Rosetta stone” for khipus. It’s essentially equivalent to the problem of someone in the year 2500 trying to unravel record-keeping in 2005 when all they have is 700 Excel expense reports. Urton and other researchers are now entering all extant khipus into computers to find new patterns—but there simply isn’t enough data there to crunch.
August 20th, 2005 at 11:29 am
Maybe his realization of the failure and recanting of the analogy/theory could be seen as a positive example to lead others in these Intelligent Design times.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:51 am
I invite you to see Quipu Knot Record
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/index.html
paul pawlowski
researcher of inca knot system
August 7th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
I would like to ask Paul Pawlowski what exactly is the point of his funny online exposition of quipus ? Does he have any clue or interesting point a view to share with us ?
Thanks for the post, anyway.
January 6th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Happy New Year!
Wishing Dr Urton Quipu success!
I have seen Inca Quipu at the British Museum once.
Miss Bard of British Museum directed me to Nordenskiold Locke.
Nordenskiold Quipus in groups of 6-cords. Why in groups of 6 cords?
Speech is made up of about 40 sounds
about 400 syllables
about 30,000 words
We work 26-A to Z
What was Inca?
26-A to Z is in graphic Knots & in mnemonic strands
26-A to Z works best on 4-mnemonic strands
Inca Knots on 6 mnemonic strands — Why?
Our 26-key
Inca 40-Key?
Inca recording Key of 40 sounds?
40-sounds Inca Key divided over 6 cords?
Longest on 6-cords - 6-turns Inca Quipu Knot?
If the Knots/strings is 40 sounds — the Quipu must be
very ancient thing — pre-50m Himalaya?
I think you would need to be fluent in Inca language
and have Inca Soul in your heart to work Inca Quipu.
Just as we are fluent in our language
and have A to Z Key in our heart
What about convening Quipu conference?
Linguists, historians, indigeneous, mathematics,
informatics zoologists geologists computing
the scientific community — all would be interested.
For Lhoba/China mnemonics contact
Degyi China’s Tibet Magazine
135 Fuyoujie Street Beijing 100031 China
Thank you USA
Good Luck Dr Urton
January 7th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Miss Bard directed me to Nordenskiold
My local public library gave me Nordenskiold on loan
I asked Swedish embassy for permission to reproduce from Nordenskiold
The embassy sent my request to Nordenskiold museum in Sweden
Curator replied - he said Erland Nordenskiold was the curator but he died - his book was published more than 50 years ago therefore copyright restriction no longer apply - you may reproduce.
I made photocopy of Nordenskiold 15 for my own use.
Looking at Nordenskiold 15 I understood how the Inca knot is done.
I was working Inca knots for the next 25 years
I would work Inca knot on any string at hand
The many-turns became my A to Z
– and it all started in HM Prison cell Wandsworth.
I was recording names in knots working A to Z turns.
My workmates have been asking me to record in knots name of his/her child which I was delighted to do
My shopfloor mates became my knot-readers.
Nay! Colin Smith was my quipu proofreader - he was correcting my recording.
So was my doctor Dr Plant.
So was Degyi in Beijing (Degyi: “you missed the ‘t’ — the shoelace was not long enough to do the ‘t’)
I was using more than one Key for recording
Dr Plant called me once - he couldn’t read my quipu
No No No! - this one is not A to Z — the Key for this one is Jack and Jill.
In the New Millennium Year I got an idea - I’ll put Nordenskiold quipus in knots on nylon strings - make Hard Copy of Nordenskiold Inca quipus on nylon string - make it for my own use - to study Inca quipu reproduced in nylon strings
I applied to my librarian for Nordenskiold again
This is what I got in reply:
Dear Mr Pawlowski
Secret of the Peruvian Quipus: Comparative Ethnographical Studies by Erland Nordenskiold
With reference to your request for he above item made at Burgess Hill Library, I regret that I have been unable to trace copies for loan in the United Kingdom. However, I understand that this title is avaliable for reference use only at
Museum of Mankind
6 Burlington Gardens
LONDON
W1X 2EX
I am sorry that you have been disappointed on this occasion.
however, I enclose a request voucher which you may use for an alternative item
Yours sincerely, etc
January 9th, 2008 at 2:07 am
I made my first quipu in HM Prison cell Wandsworth
The only thing in my prison cell ’strings’ was the woollen blanket
I pulled out 26 strands from the blanket and recorded One World in knots
Link
India-Forum.Com-1st Anniversary
When I got out of prison I bought ball of knitting wool and registered trading company
Scytaios Quipu and Knot Writing Co Ltd
I wanted to put the woollen quipu on the market
People sending postcards from Blackpool
– why not send Blackpool greetings in Knots?
Blackpool Council had no selling point
– Try John Lewis - they have stands to let, they advised
John Lewis manager listened — looked at me doing
GREETINGS FROM BLACKPOOL in knots and said
Its a novelty - it may take.
How much do you expect to take a day?
Fifteen quid? I said.
My booble gum man takes 700 a day, said he.
There was nothing more to be said and I left.
How come 15 quid?
Because it takes about two hours to construct a woollen quipu
Another hour for knotting the message
Sell 5 quipus a day 3 quid each - 15 quid, I reckoned
There must be easier way
I asked Bradford Textile College if woollen quipu could be done on machine
The instructor took me down to the machine shop - demonstrated string-making - carpet making machine. Carpet making machine would be the closest to make woollen quipu, he said, - and added
But designers could design machine to do it.
How much would that cost?
About £250,000 he said.
I lost interest marketing the quipu.
For the next 35 years I was earning my living working in toolmaking
saving for my retirement
and researching Quipu for the love of it
January 12th, 2008 at 1:51 am
I would like quipu researchers to visit Jack and Jill in Knots
7-turns in Inca Quipu Knot telling us the True Story of Jack and Jill
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page45.html
correction
JACK JILL is knot-mispelled in the webpage
One 4-turn knot (JACK) should be One-turn knot
Two 4-turns knots (JILL) should be 3-turn knots
Would the respected quipu researchers
correct the knots for me please
Thank you.
Links
http://www.rhymes.org.uk/jack_and_jill.html
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page45.html
January 22nd, 2008 at 2:26 am
Health & Safety Executive please take notice
Inca Knots work and safety alert
We work Inca Knots in nylon strings using tools
- the scissor - the needle - the knife.
NEVER use flame on nylon string
Welder lit cigarette - put the gas lighter in his pocket
-continued welding - spark burn through his trauser
- gas lighter exploded blew his leg off.
Working inca knot we need clean end to put the string through the loop
– put selotape round the string - scissor-cut through the selotape to obtain clean end - but
NEVER use flame working nylon string
- gas lighter explode blow your head off!!!
NEVER use flame working Inca Knot nylon string.
NEVER let child work the needle.
I was working quipu
– the needle fell on the carpet
I step on it
had to go to hospital operation to get it out
Work Inca Knot safely
I had quipu stall at a meeting in Haywards Heath.
Mums with children were at the meeting.
Children were looking at me making the Inca Knot
and asking for bit of string
Child would take the nylon string
make ABC turns on his finger
recording his/her name in Inca Knot.
Always supervise children playing nylon Inca Knot.
February 16th, 2008 at 2:53 am
6,000 years Inca technology.
Scholars are telling us the Quipu was in use 6,000 years.
Lots of technology must have evolved over the centuries.
How was the Inca doing it?
Inca using colour code.
I am not using colour code because I have no need for it
- but I do tint the string
to see the Turns better
I buy 200 metres of nylon string.
Selotape round the string - cut off the required length
Needle it through the Main Cold
Now the Quipu is ready to work
I do my ABC-turns on Soft Drink Straw.
All my Knots
2-turns Knot — 42-turns Knot have been done on Straw.
Do the Turns on Straw
- put the end of the string inside the Straw
-pull the straw out
pull the ends and I have my Inca Knot
- not having lost a Turn.
What tools was the Inca using doing the Knot?
How was the Inca putting the string through the loop?
How was the Inca doing the Knot?
Is somebody looking at footprints of Inca technology?
February 17th, 2008 at 3:50 am
How was the Inca write/read?
From L to R
R to L
L to R
R to L
See footprint Attica script c.550 - 540 BC
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page37.html
Sir Kenneth Dover once asked me
Was the Knot on this side?
“The Knot is in Egypt hierogryphs together with the loop -Locke
Did this side get the Knot from the other side?
Attic Ancestor learn write/read from the other side?
or was it the other way round
the other side got the Knot from this side?
And when?
this side of 50m Himalaya?
or the other side?
Reminiscence
I came to Britain as teenager just about read/write because of the War.
In Polish bookshop in Knightsbridge I bought two books
Pol/Eng dictionary and anthalogy of Polish poetry
Those were the first books I bought in my life
The anthalogy said First Polish was written in IX century Zdrowas Mario
That fired my imagination - How was it before - where did the language came from? OK. First written IX C. - but when First spoken?
Thats how it started
February 19th, 2008 at 2:28 am
I read somewhere that Quipu would go with Oral message
– the runner would carry the Quipu AND Oral message (Locke?)
But why run with quipu AND Oral message?
Could the knotted message be different to the Oral message
- a form of Special communication?
OK. I must try it out.
I felt honoured and delighted receiving letter from Sir Kenneth.
So I put my feelings for Sir Kenneth in Knots
I asked the postman to deliver my Quipu AND Oral message to him
I DON’T WANT TO RECEIVE ANY LETTERS FROM YOU
I have never heard from Sir Kenneth again - but did he read my knotted Quipu?
Did Sir Kenneth read my knotted Quipu
Did Sir Kenneth read my knotted Quipu?
Is that how the quipu AND Oral message worked at Inca?
February 21st, 2008 at 5:52 am
We are starting Inca Quipu from Zero
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page53.html
March 10th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Acknowledgements
My first quipu was that blanket in HM Prison Wandsworth.
After prison I was popularising my 26 woollen strands quipu
till
Miss Bard of British Museum directed me to Nordenskiold.
Looking at Nordenskiold 15 I have increased the turns to 26.
26-turns knot was improvement on 26-strands woollen -but I wasn’t happy because the 26-knot was so long. Dividing it in half gave me 13-13 knot — that was bit better but still too long. Dividing it over 4-cords gave me 6-6-6-8 — that was better. Dividing it over 6
– 4-4-4-4-4-6 was leaving too many empty cords - not desirable.
Practice has shown that 26-A to Z works best on 4-strands.
Who is the author of the Mnemonic Knot?
The Knot was here since 50m Himalaya - so was
ZLWA BIJTA GAMMA DZIELTA
therefore nobody can claim authorship - nobody can claim copyright.
Who created the 26-A to Z knot out of Nordenskiold 15? I have
rised Nordenskiold 15 to 26 for my own use.
You may use it but please acknowledge.
Therefore all of us who breathed life into the Knot and made it speak
should be acknowledged and thanked
and in my case who contributed go in the hundreds.
Thank you.
-
March 18th, 2008 at 5:23 am
I invite you to visit Lhoba knots in real use
Link
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page59.html
April 16th, 2008 at 1:14 am
There is a pub called Jack and Jill in Sussex by the Sea
that is offering pint of beer for free to man or woman
reciting Inca knots
How did that came about?
70 years ago when I was 21 I was drinking beer in the Jack and Jill.
Now, at 81 I wanted to do something special for the pub of my youth
So I picked up Jack and Jill quipu and went with it to see Paul Harman the manager of the Jack and Jill pub
I give you £20 - you give pint of beer for free to man or woman
for reciting/interpreting Inca knots, said I.
Paul Harman accepted my offer and gave me receipt for the £20.
He put the quipu on the wall and now any man or woman
can ask for pint of beer for free reciting Inca knots
When the £20 runs out I’ll give you a bell, said Paul
When the £20 runs out I’ll give you £200 more
and when the £200 runs out I’ll give you £2,000 more
and when the £2,000 runs out I’ll give you £4,000 more
to keep Jack and Jill in pints of beer for free - that’s a promise.
“Are you making this offeer to any other pub?” asked Paul.
No. There is only one pub in the world that is offering
pint of beer for free and that pub is the Jack and Jill
in Sussex by the Sea, I replied
Now I am laughing for the pub that is offering pint of beer for free.
I am inviting knot readers - and knot-proof readers for pint of beer for free at the Jack and Jill pub in Sussex by the Sea
May I put this on the internet? I asked. Paul Harman said Yes.
If you put it on the internet the Americans will be coming.
The Americans will spend £1,000 on air-ticket and £1,000 on hotel
and the Americans will be coming to the Jack and Jill for pint of beer for free — the Americans are mad! said Marta.
I am inviting men and women to come anf enjoy pint of beer for free
at the Jack and Jill pub in Sussex by the Sea
and have fun reciting True Jack and Jill story off Inca knots
paul pawlowski, Keeper, Muzeum Sczytaja
16 April 2008 06:20
Mike, Joan, Paul & Tony Harman
The Jack and Jill
Brighton Road, Clayton Nr. Hassocks, Sussex
tel. (01273)843595
April 29th, 2008 at 5:09 am
Would the respected quipu researchers please correct
my knots on quipu Number 91
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page18.html
It is R to L and should read ZDOL
(Lodz, my hometown Lodz).
also please correct quipu Number 21 on page 11
It reads ONECHNA - turn ‘i’ missing.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
ZLWA BIJTA GAMMA DZIELTA should be read:
ZA LWA BIJTA GAMMA DZIELTA?
May 11th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Thank you Boguslaw Witkowski
ZA LWA - bij jak lew? makes sense.
ZE LWA - po lwie? - jedz po lwie? lew zabil - lew zostawil - jedz po lwie - makes sense
ZLWA - zwierz - makes sense
BETA - bijta
DZIELTA - share it out - Kill the mammoth and share it out - makes sense
GAMMA - gam ma co? GAM MA trabe - mammoth mamut
Bij jak lew - zabij mamuta - dziel mamuta- makes sense
OMEGA - plo miga
Written record goes back 12,000 years
How far back our MNEMONIC Oral Record?
The Great Flood — 50m Himalaya
Adam and Eve dressed in fig leaf - that comes from pre-Himalaya when the earth was warm shallow sea - Adam and Eve dressed in fig leaf?
Now Shallow Sea bed six miles up on tip of Mt Everest
Chinese Anthartic expedition standing on egg-shaped stones on the hightst peak on Anthartic - so that was
shallow sea-bed once too.
Thank you Boguslaw
May 11th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Making the Knot
We dress the end with selotape
push the end inside the hollow quill
pull the quill out
pull the ends
lock the turns
make perfect Inca knot
on any string
Mnemonic Knot
Many-turns Knot is Inca knot.
How did Inca do the turns?
On quill?
If on quill - the end must have been dressed.
Quill or no quill
the end must have been dressed
to work it through the loop
How dressed?
How did Inca work the end?
If end not dressed
How did Inca work the end throught the loop?
Footprint/evidence might have survived on end of string
I have no access to Inca quipu
I have seen quipu once 30 years ago
in the British Museum
it was in glass box
Do we have research document on end of string?
—————
I do my Inca knots in my front room.
Sack full of all kinds of strings
- table with drawer
tools in the drawer
Cup of tea by my side
It is a pleasure making quipu
working message in Inca knots
but the Inca - imagine
Inca alone in open field
alone under Heaven
Survival Quipu
making strings
making turns
working end
making Servival Knot.
————-
JACK and JILL
Paul said
No one solved the riddle yet.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:05 am
It took thousands of years
for Egypt knots to evolve
Writing make the knot mute
Roseta Stone resurrect
For thousands of years
balladers telling Oral stories
Oral stories were written down
wiped out of memory obliterated
One book was found in Arab land
brought over to Europe
translated into all languages
the belief in many gods and goddesses
resurrected
Millennias of singing dancing games
in honour of Apollo evolved
wiped out of memory
Holy Games lay mute
Beijing Holy Games in Honour of Apollo
resurrecting
50m Himalaya extinct dinosaurs
new species evolved
herds humans migrating
Warm South - Cold North
Ordos Great Wall
put stop to seasonal migration
2,000 years living with
fabricated history
now Ch’in/Ordos story
resurrected
Quipu colour-code
Yellow for gold
Red for soldiers
or maybe
Yellow for Man Utd
Red for Chelsea
White for Apollo
The omens are good
Beijing is vigorously researching
mnemonic Oral Ages
Gesar Lhoba China Knot
Holy Games in honour of Apollo
is the latest
So are others
Israel India USA researching the Quipu
It is only a matter of time
and we shall hear
what the Inca recorded in Knots
May 20th, 2008 at 1:50 am
I have too much on my plate to go for the Quipu - but if I was in my 20s/30s with the experience I have now at 80s
HOW would I go about the Inca Quipu?
First of all I would have to learn the Inca language
It is only by knowing the language it was done in that you can read it back
I would feed in the hard disk Inca songs folklore sayings proverbs prayers greetings - run it through the turns and study the printout for words syllables
With the aids we have now finding out what the Inca recorded should be a cup of tea.
If we fail to do the job - the Chinese looking for Zheng He will
The Holy Race in honour of Apollo is on
– either we get there first
or the Chinese looking for Zheng He win the
wild olive wreath
Link
http://www.olympicpoetry.org.uk/article11.html
May 29th, 2008 at 3:24 am
Olaf Witkowski
Please proofread my Polish in Inca knots
recorded in 26-A to Z over 4-cords
- mirror image reads R to L
http://www.muzeumsczytaja.info/page63.html
July 17th, 2008 at 7:21 am
PoTiDaOn - Poseidon
PoTiDaOn LINEAR B is understood in Polish Slavonic
PoTi - ‘poty’ - moisture dripping from skin
PoTiDaOn - pray God give Rain
That is understood in Polish
Look at the evidence
4bn years Living World
50m Himalaya
4bn years the world was warm shallow sea
- warm PoTi dripping from heaven giving Life
Adam & Eve calling rain PoTi - sweat-drops from God
50m IMPLOSION - plates breaking - sinking - making seas
making Oceans - making continents - colliding plates push
Himalaya 6 mile up the sky - climate change - extinct dinosaurs
- making Oil Coal Gas - Warm South -Cold North
No more Warm shallow sea - no more warm drops of PoTi
God of Rain PoTiDaOn becomes god of sea Poseidon
Are there any Inca wards in LINEAR B?
Inca — pre-50m Himalaya Inca?
If we fail to research Inca - China will
Link
http://muzeumsczytaja.info/page67.html